Curse

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 31, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Experience with trying to get mesmers in teams has shown, that the more people moan about something the more impression it gives that, that profession is weak.

E.g people say OMG tntf is useless, change it to x y and X. All the majority remember is tntf is useless and by association the paragon is also.

Much better to make new builds and say how cool they are, and how well tntf synagises with them. Always accentuate the positive, and people will remember that instead

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Sure, if you think healing seed heals enemies.

That's why their health bar keeps going up when I want it to go down!

Age · Aug 31, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I said attribute points, not time. Balance is based on the specific build and skills in it, not how long you grinded to get the skills, and based on what the skill can do at its highest potentials (examples: spike builds, prot bond). The game isn't meant to be based on time spent, so why should they make a skill that took more time to get more powerful?

Having a skill that could heal a colossal amount, effectively remove all group pressure, and didn't require any attributes meaning it could fit effectively into a build with heal/prot monks made it ridiculous. That doesn't even begin to take into account the effects when combined with bonds or other passive defence.

If you honestly think skills like Seed of Life and TNTF were on the level of other skills, then I don't know if you've played Guild Wars.

Seed of Life gets it attribute from Devine Favour not your Sunspear Rank and I guess it was PvP that nerfed Protective Bond.It is to bad really as reading jelly's thread was great fun.

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Seed of Life gets it attribute from Devine Favour not your Sunspear Rank and I guess it was PvP that nerfed Protective Bond.It is to bad really as reading jelly's thread was great fun.

Yeah, because monks don't have divine favor already in every build.

Prot bond was a PvE nerf, I don't know what you're talking about calling it PvP? I was referring to the fact that skill balance was based around skills used at their maximum potential, and those were two examples (prot bond at extremely high prot attrib, multiple skills used for spiking). I gave two examples to show that this method of balance was not dependent on the gametype.

Gein : Go ahead with that mentality all you want, you're causing your own problems. The fact is, admitted by you as well, that better players aren't affected by this.

Lexie_Moonshot · Aug 31, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

...

The paragon nerf now only reinforces the stereo type of Bonder, Nuker, Tank mentality unless you have two paragons willing to work together.

...

I think its more like, try finding a group willing to accept two paragons

.

GloryFox · Aug 31, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

posted by Avarre
Perhaps players should try to improve?

I agree players should improve, Not everyone studies every aspect of this game since they have real lives to attend to. Not everyone is aware of the leet combos posed by these skills. As I said you live in a different world.

Quote:

No man's knowledge can go beyond his experience.

Yes I would like to have view's changed but that takes time, and when ANET makes nerfs like this it does not help the perception. Now go walk a mile is someone else's shoes. Live by your words, make a Paragon, or Mesmer, or Assassin. Join only PuG's Farm Max SS points after you beat Abbadon. Then come back and tell me what you just said again. Tell us of your treatment.

SleepyLuxon · Aug 31, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexie_Moonshot

I think its more like, try finding a group willing to accept two paragons

.

Hit the nail on the head that time.

Lorden · Aug 31, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

The Game is already ez when your good at, at least Seed Of Life made it so i could satisfy my lazyness and watch t.v. Soon, all the Nerfed skills are gonna put Oscar The Grouch, and Slimey on the street. Home Wreckers!

Dr Strangelove · Aug 31, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexie_Moonshot

I think its more like, try finding a group willing to accept two paragons

.

It's extremely rare that I run a PvE group without a paragon now. They're really good.

Is it just me, or has guru started to feel like trying to teach vector analysis calculus to a bunch of the dumb, angry kids in high school?

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Now go walk a mile is someone else's shoes. Live by your words, make a Paragon, or Mesmer, or Assassin. Join only PuG's Farm Max SS points after you beat Abbadon. Then come back and tell me what you just said again. Tell us of your treatment.

Gentlemen, we have a winner!

Engel the Fallen · Aug 31, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

I never knew “Seed of Life” could make you team completely and utterly invincible, with an 8 second interval. I thought your team could still get wiped in certain places whether you bring the skill or not. (sarcasm) This skill made DoA such a cake walk. (sarcasm)

Then you used it wrong. Lifebond team, have two backline monks, alternate casting this so it overlaps [it does stack] and sit back and enjoy.

yesitsrob · Aug 31, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyLuxon

I must be horrible

I agree its still a good skill but pug mentality's won't know that and think because of a nerf to it that their's no point in bringing it if we could bring a bonder instead.

So true, but if people really cared so much, they'd find themselves a good guild. It seems plenty of people are opposed to said "pug mentalities" yet very few actually do anything about it, they'd rather complain and rely on imbalanced skills so people will pick them, which is just ridiculous really.

Any good group of people worth partying with know as a fact that the Paragon is one of the stronger PVE classes, even before a ridiculously imbalanced PVE only skill.

It is clear that these nerfs are going to affect the poorer player more than the good one. This isn't meant as an insult it's just true. But with these skills people would absolutely never improve, because they quite frankly wouldn't need to. That said it seems common practice to moan about Chromatic Drakes being imbalanced as opposed to actually learning to play.

You have to understand though, for people who do know how to play - these skills took whatever challenge there was left in PVE. In fairness to remove the challenge again just need more buddies to bring TNTF.

Quote:

Is it just me, or has guru started to feel like trying to teach vector analysis calculus to a bunch of the dumb, angry kids in high school?

It does certainly seem that people complain because in the 2 years the game hasn't been out they still haven't learned how to play.

On another note - instead of arguing with Avarre, listen to him, because he actually knows what he's talking about, kthx. Even if he is a mezmar lolol

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's extremely rare that I run a PvE group without a paragon now. They're really good.

Is it just me, or has guru started to feel like trying to teach vector analysis calculus to a bunch of the dumb, angry kids in high school?

Never been in a group yet with a Paragon.
Mostly just angry. And noone liked Vector Analysis anyways.

odly · Aug 31, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

SoL was overpowered.

While lowering the duration they could have kept the recharge and lowered the cost to 5 energy.

Thruth be told, Due to real live frequent interuption I have been using hench and heroes a lot on my necro and the heroes hench manage just fine without SoL andd TNTF in most area's.

But then my heroes do have some other party helping skills as well. (prot spirit and shield of absorption on a SF ele, heal area and healing seed on the other ...)

When I play with a pug I'll gladly accepts a paragon btw. Uber skill or not, If you liked the character enough to stick to it you probably know what you're doing and they can still be very good. After all as long as you have a balance of damage/protection/healing PvE is not to hard in most area's.

PvE skills are the only skills I buy from the heroes skills trainer (I have full unlock) and they are the only skills my heroes cannot use.

Lexie_Moonshot · Aug 31, 2007, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's extremely rare that I run a PvE group without a paragon now. They're really good.

Is it just me, or has guru started to feel like trying to teach vector analysis calculus to a bunch of the dumb, angry kids in high school?

Unfourtunatly, the majority of gw doesn't think the way you do about paragons

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

SoL was overpowered.

While lowering the duration they could have kept the recharge and lowered the cost to 5 energy.

There you have it. I'll take that as +1 /sign. One down, a thousand to go. >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

When I play with a pug I'll gladly accepts a paragon btw. Uber skill or not, If you liked the character enough to stick to it you probably know what you're doing and they can still be very good.

Something I could never understand. My teams never picked up a Paragon. Ever.
Even at the end of the game when I was asking them, "then how did they get this far if they suck so much?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Wait, wait, wait, You're telling Avarre to go make a mesmer?????!!!! This kids is why you stay in school. Reading Comprehension is so totally hard.

Dude, chill out and don't be so mean.
He obviously didn't read her User Title... I know I didn't. Don't be so quick to jump on people.

yesitsrob · Aug 31, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexie_Moonshot

Unfourtunatly, the majority of gw doesn't think the way you do about paragons

Because they are bad, which is the where the root of this entire whiny thread lies.

Racthoh · Aug 31, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

If you really, really want to, you can run Echo with There's Nothing To Fear! to have it up all the time still.

Omniclasm · Aug 31, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

If you really, really want to, you can run Echo with There's Nothing To Fear! to have it up all the time still.

Sadly, it is almost worth it....or you could take "Incoming!" LOL

Firebaall · Aug 31, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

lol...

Anet nerfed it right off my monk's skill bar. 10s was long 4s-5s is too short. I guess there's alot of bleeding hearts over at Anet for the PvE monsters.

Oh well, I didn't need it before, and I don't need it after this nerf. Really, why bother with any PvE only skills, if you nerf them to the point that nobody will use them?

If it was the PvPers crying, at least I could understand the backpedal. Not that I agree with it. At least I could understand what was motivating the change.